In This Episode

Buck’s live in the Baltimore studio for the first time and Porter’s back from the Grant’s Conference in New York with a report on what the big money on Wall Street is thinking right now. Turns out Porter’s not the only one who sees a global debt “jubilee” on the horizon. Porter reveals the first country that may start the trend of massive debt forgiveness, and how it could easily spread to the US.

Featured Guests

Tama Churchouse
Tama Churchouse
Tama-Richard along with his father Peter established Churchouse Publishing Limited in 2012, with the aim of bringing independent, no-nonsense analysis and research to those who take an active interest in creating and managing their own wealth. He draws on extensive experience gained by nearly a decade working for investment banks in Asia, most recently at JPMorgan working on derivative structuring and marketing across a wide range of asset classes (including rates, credit, equity and FX) for private banks in the Asia region as part of the Structuring and Solutions Group. Tama-Richard also oversaw Alternative Investment Structuring in Algorithmic Index Strategies, as well as other bespoke longevity and equity hybrid structuring. Prior to joining JPMorgan, Tama-Richard worked in Derivative Solutions at ABN Amro.


Announcer: Broadcasting from Baltimore, Maryland and New York City, you're listening to the Stansberry Investor Hour.

[Music plays]

Tune in each Thursday on iTunes for the latest episode of the Stansberry Investor Hour. Sign up for the free show archive at Here are the hosts of your show, Buck Sexton and Porter Stansberry.

Buck Sexton: Welcome, everybody, to the Stansberry Investor Hour. It is a special episode this week. I, Buck Sexton, am here with you. I'm a syndicated radio host, as you know if you listen to the podcast. But I am in the Stansberry HQ here in Baltimore. I am visiting.

Porter Stansberry: The "global headquarters," please.

Buck Sexton: The global HQ of all things Stansberry.

Porter Stansberry: Worldwide headquarters of Stansberry Holdings.

Buck Sexton: Worldwide headquarters, Stansberry Holdings. And it is quite nice. I must say. And my first trip to Baltimore. And of course, with us, fearless leader, founder of Stansberry Research, Porter Stansberry. Good to have you, sir.

Porter Stansberry: Buck, I'm glad that you're finally down here at the HQ. You can see that Baltimore is not the murderous, crime-ridden hood that it's portrayed on the national media. Fake news.

Buck Sexton: Yeah. Well, I already knew. Just don't stay on the X, you know what I mean? You gotta move fast, you gotta move with purpose, and everything will be okay.

Porter Stansberry: And before we begin, a personal note. My 10-year-old son, Traveler, killed his first deer last night on our farm with a crossbow at about 50 yards.

Buck Sexton: Wow.

Porter Stansberry: And that is a super happy, proud kid.

Buck Sexton: Yeah he is.

Porter Stansberry: And dad was also very happy and proud. And we have a new hunter in the family. So, for all of the tree huggers out there, you know, they'll be weeping, gnashing.


Buck Sexton: Venison is delicious.

Porter Stansberry: Yes, it is. Especially this venison 'cause this was a really nice, young, fat doe who had been eating our corn and soybeans all summer long. And she was like a pumpkin.

Buck Sexton: Sometimes you gotta eat Bambi. It's gotta happen. So here we are. We've got Tama who is joining us. Tama Churchouse from Stansberry Churchouse Research, which is based in Hong Kong and Singapore. Tama has become a rising expert in the bitcoin and cryptocurrency space, and recently presented a talk entitled "How Asia is the Key to Unlocking Cryptocurrency Profits" at the Stansberry conference in Las Vegas. You'll hear about this presentation, get his latest thoughts on the news surrounding bitcoin, and find out what he sees as the real opportunities in the cryptocurrency space.

Tama is also in Baltimore this week for Stansberry's first ever bitcoin webinar event. Just go to to check it all out. You can learn how to safely buy, move, and store bitcoin, get answers to the most common bitcoin misconceptions, and learn how to buy and sell other cryptocurrencies. Check it all out for free at That's

Porter Stansberry: Tune in. I can't wait to learn. I know that Tama has connections all over Asia where some of the biggest bitcoin exchanges are, and a lot of the technology companies. Very knowledgeable. I'm very interested in blockchain. I wanna hear what he's gonna say. And bitcoin I believe is now over $5,000.

Buck Sexton: So even from when people all realized this was a thing that was going to be around for a bit, it's gone up.

Porter Stansberry: Yeah.

Buck Sexton: 'Cause people were saying that it was –

Porter Stansberry: I think it's probably up about fivefold in the last year. Something close to that.

Buck Sexton: That's incredible.

Porter Stansberry: And I don't wanna try to sell you on it, because I'm not quite sure that I would wanna buy it, having watched the runup. You wanna wait and hopefully get it at a more attractive price. But the idea that it is a currency that is not under any government's control is extremely attractive. Especially when you understand how indebted the major Western economies are, which is something that I kinda specialize in.

Buck Sexton: I just wonder at what point governments get a little antsy about it. Because that will happen, if at some point this interferes –

Porter Stansberry: Some governments have.

Buck Sexton: Well, yeah [laughing]. I mean, our government –

Porter Stansberry: Well, there's a lot of downsides to simply prohibiting it. Because you're gonna really stifle innovation. And what if other countries don't stifle that innovation and it becomes incredibly more and more important? It'd be like what if you'd said, "Oh no, there's no Internet protocol. We're not gonna allow commerce on the Internet." Where would we be as a country? So, yes, it undermines the status of the Fed. Yes, it undermines the role of the dollar. But what if it also generates enormous amounts of wealth and productivity and leads to an entire new industry?

Buck Sexton: Sounds great to me.

Porter Stansberry: I don't know. Jamie Dimon says it's all garbage.

Buck Sexton: I don't understand how it's not all garbage. But I also don't understand it really. Like fundamentally it is beyond my ability to conceive of how this is – people say that you can't – from this perspective, anything is essentially hackable that is connected, right? There's a way into anything?

Porter Stansberry: It's not hackable.

Buck Sexton: But see: how is that possible?

Porter Stansberry: Because the security is driven through the nature of the distributed registry. The thing that people can't quite fathom – they can't quite wrap their heads around, 'cause it is a really new technology; it's a really new idea. It's the idea that every single person who's ever owned that bitcoin – the receipt of their ownership is noted on the bitcoin. And every other person who's ever owned any other bitcoin is also on that registry. And that information, that blockchain – that is why it's valuable. Because it is an accurate registry. And you cannot alter the registry unless – I think it's 70% of all the people agree to. So if there has been fraud or if there's a need to change the registry in some way, it is alterable. And in that sense, it's hackable, as you would say. But it's not hackable in that you're not gonna be able to hack every single person's bitcoin at the same time. It can't be done.

So if you have one key, for example – you've got your bitcoin account – and you figure out a way to hack it to give yourself more bitcoin, your registry is not gonna match with anybody else's; it's not going to be accepted. It's gonna be rejected. And that kind of technology is very hard to defeat with a hacker. Think about it. The reason why information has been subject to hacking is because it is warehoused; it is vaulted; it is held apart. What's so different about the distributed registry is nothing is secret. The entire registry is always available to every owner of bitcoin.

Buck Sexton: So this is like radical financial transparency – is what this would allow.

Porter Stansberry: Radical – nothing has ever bene this transparent. And, in fact, the way that the math works is: if you try to alter the code, then it will not work. And so it is transparent, okay? But it's also private. There's a hash function. It's a mathematical function that allows you to basically have a username that is in the blockchain. And you have access to that username and only you have access to that username. So you could know that someone owned that bitcoin, someone whose hash is XPQ7589747, 20,000 more characters. But you don't know who that actual person is. So an interesting thing about bitcoin: the guy who wrote it used a pseudonym. Satoshi somebody, Nakamura, who I can't remember the guy's fake name. But it was a person or a group of people that – it's a really elegant and beautiful breakthrough in computer science to be able to do this.

And, by the way, a distributed registry like this has been a goal of computer science for more than 50 years. It's been theorized that something like this would evolve with a network, but no one had ever been able to figure out a way to do it until now. And instead of putting his name on it – because he feared – I suppose he feared retaliation from governments. Who knows? Maybe he's Chinese. Maybe he lives in an oppressive regime. We don't know. But the cool thing is: he still owns a million bitcoins. Because when he did the original programming, "Hey, I get" –

Buck Sexton: He gets a piece.

Porter Stansberry: "Hey. Let me wet my beak." So think about this for a second: the guy owns a million bitcoins. Bitcoin is now $5,000. If I do my math right, that's $5 billion this guy has made by designing bitcoin. And the really interesting thing is: you can see when he begins to sell; he's never sold one. So I think it's a really unbelievably cool technology. It'll definitely be around for a very long, long time. And it's gonna change everything about the way we record ownership. It's gonna change everything about housing registry. It's gonna change everything about stock trading. It's gonna change everything about bank accounts. And that's why Jamie Dimon fears it so much.

Buck Sexton: Where is your uncertainty with bitcoin?

Porter Stansberry: I have no idea what's it's worth.

Buck Sexton: Okay. That's where the point of uncertainty is.

Porter Stansberry: You could make a serious, legitimate case that it's worth $100,000. And it's not fanciful. You can also make a very serious, legitimate case it's worth nothing.

Buck Sexton: How is it worth nothing?

Porter Stansberry: Well, it's worth nothing because right now it is the most popular version of a blockchain currency. It was the first one. It has the most users. It has the most liquidity. There's the most trading in it. It's the basis of all of the other virtual currencies. So it's kind of like the reserve virtual currency. But what if somebody comes out and says, "Here's a better – here's an improvement. Here's something new that no one else has thought of that makes it better somehow." I don't know how.

Maybe somebody comes out and says, "You know what? We're going to link a virtual currency with gold and with a sovereign." So the Swiss come out and say, "Hey, buy the Swiss coin. We're gonna back it 20% with gold, plus we're a sovereign country. And you'll have a regulated banking system in which to use it." You could see a tremendous competition for who's gonna be the reserve currency of this new form of money.

So I just have no idea what it's worth. But I can tell you: I felt strongly about how beautiful and important the software was years ago, and I never bought it 'cause I never knew what it was worth, and now of course, like every other person, you feel like a damn fool.

Buck Sexton: Do you think bitcoin is going up? You, yeah, you. Come on.

Porter Stansberry: Country Club Guy.

Country Club Guy: Well, the only question I had, if the blockchain technology – is that gonna help me get tee times any faster?

Porter Stansberry: Tee times.

Country Club Guy: Yeah.

Porter Stansberry: I think that the registry would change the country club world.

Country Club Guy: Then I'm all for it.

Porter Stansberry: You wouldn't have to have those chits anymore. You would just –

Country Club Guy: Don't have to sign anything.

Porter Stansberry: No. They would just take it right outta your virtual bitcoin account.

Country Club Guy: So it's gonna help the country club life. I'm all for it.

Porter Stansberry: Yeah. I think so.

Buck Sexton: Tell us about the Grant meeting, by the way, Porter.

Porter Stansberry: It was fantastic. It was an important moment for me. Jim Grant is the dean of the alternative financial press. He is in his early '70s. He has been writing his newsletter every other week since 1983. His first subscriber was Jim Rogers, who at the time was a partner with George Soros and the Quantum Fund. He is the most plugged-in, connected guy in all of media when it comes to New York's billionaires and the most elite circles in finance. He knows everybody. And so to be invited to his meeting was a great compliment. And particularly to be invited to the speakers' dinner after the meeting was a tremendous honor. I got to talk with folks whose exploits in finance are legendary and sort of my heroes. Jim Chanos: the most successful and highly regarded short seller probably in history – I spent some time talking with him there.

And I also had a great talk at the dinner afterwards with Frank Brosens. And Frank Brosens has a long history in Wall Street. He played a role back in the Michael Milken scandal. He actually had to testify against one of his partners at Goldman in a terrible prosecution. We won't get into that. But he's just been around a very long time. He now runs a $10-billion fund called Taconic. And he is a fantastic expert in bonds. And I think, as you know, I go a little crazy for bonds. Nobody understands why [laughing]. But bonds are the coolest financial instruments there are. And Frank knows more about them than just about anybody. So I had a great talk with Frank about understanding what the future is for a lot of these corporate bonds that just don't make any sense.

Case in point: did you know, Buck, that after the deal for Time Warner is completed, AT&T, the wireless networking company, will owe almost $250 billion in corporate bonds?

Buck Sexton: Did not know that.

Porter Stansberry: So think about this: a private company has a larger amount of debt outstanding than the entire country of Ireland. Does that sound reasonable to you?

Buck Sexton: Probably not.

Porter Stansberry: It's not a really good idea [laughing]. So the cellphone industry is one of these industries where the low interest rates that the Fed has manipulated over the last decade has caused them to make enormous commitments. So they've borrowed – all of them: Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T have made these huge investments trying to remain competitive. Verizon bought, among other things, AOL, which was probably a bad decision.

Buck Sexton: AOL bought [speaking in accent] The Huffington Post for a lot of money, and they lost money every year, but it made them relevant. Country Club Guy, all of a sudden they were relevant for like five minutes. They had a lifestyle section with yoga and Pilates.

Porter Stansberry: Yes. She's always welcome.

Buck Sexton: They bought a losing asset because AOL wanted to not be the thing that older people have and pay for that they shouldn't, which was how AOL was making a lot of its money.

Porter Stansberry: Of course.

Buck Sexton: People were paying $15 a month so they'd have: "You've got mail." It's like: Google gives you this for free.

Porter Stansberry: Yeah. And what's really funny about that is: I bet you there are a whole lot of old people that had forgotten they were even paying AOL.

Buck Sexton: Oh yeah.

Porter Stansberry: But when they bought The Huffington Post they were reminded. So [laughs] probably buying The Huffington Post cost them subscribers.

Buck Sexton: Oh yeah. No, people – because they were saying, "How does AOL have so much money? Where is all this money coming from?" And it was tens of millions of dollars on a monthly basis.


Porter Stansberry: People paying $15 a month and they'd just forgotten about it.

Buck Sexton: It's better than the gym membership that you thought you got out of but actually has six more months on it. You know, it was kind of like that but went on for years with AOL. But The Huffington Post – they've always said that they've expanded, so they won't talk about what their actual earnings are. But they lose money. I mean, I know they've been losing money.

Porter Stansberry: So all these bad deals were funded by the cellphone companies, and all the capital came out of the bond markets. And it's a really fascinating thing to look at the fact that Verizon, for example – they've doubled their net debt in the last five years. They now owe over $100 billion. And yet their cash flows have fallen by two thirds in the same period. So when you are investing enormous amounts of capital into your business and you're getting less and less return, it's not a good sign.

Buck Sexton: How do they think they'll make that back?

Porter Stansberry: The whole industry, by the way, has gone from investment-grade credit to the lowest possible investment-grade credit. And I believe shortly – the entire industry, AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint – which Sprint's already there – they'll trip over into the junk bond market. And that's gonna cause a huge dislocation. AT&T – if that goes into junk status, that's the largest outstanding investment-grade credit there is. That's gonna be a big deal. And nobody's talking about it yet, but they should be. These are very, very significant problems, and they're the result of the financial manipulation that has gone on in the market.

And it's so funny. This is a great example because what happens when you artificially lower credit is you encourage people to borrow money that they shouldn't. So they do. And then they spend it. And so, in the short term, in the first five or seven years that you do this, you're pulling forward all of this investment and all of this aggregate demand. So the economy takes off because deals are happening, money's flowing.

Buck Sexton: Stimulus!

Porter Stansberry: Stimulus, right? But what happens of course is that all you've done is you've pulled that forward. Sooner or later you walk into that trough. You've pulled all that activity forward. Well, what happens seven years, eight years, nine years down the road? Well, man, I don't believe that any of these debts will be repaid. They will not. Now, as long as – right now the benchmark Verizon bond – I think it matures in 2024 or 2026 – that's denominated in euros. It's trading for less than 1%. In other words, you're gonna get paid 1% a year to own this bond. It makes no sense. You're not being paid for the capital risk. You're not being paid for the inflation. It's completely insane. Why does that happen? Well, because the central banks keep buying the bonds. They keep buying the corporate bonds to manipulate these rates lower.

So, for now, Verizon can finance itself. But sooner or later, all that central bank buying is going to trigger some kind of monetary crisis; whether it's an inflation, whether it's a panic, I don't know. But obviously you can't print your way to prosperity. Sooner or later something's gonna break. And if interest rates were to go – on Verizon paper – were to go to normal – three, four, five, six, seven percent – there's no way they can afford the debt they've accumulated. We are cruising down this railroad track and it's not a light at the end of the tunnel. It's an oncoming train. And it's so obvious, it should be apparent to everyone who knows anything about finance. Frank Brosen and I talked about it at dinner after the Grants conference. And there's no way that the economists who are running our central banks don't know this. I can't figure out how they hope to escape from –

Buck Sexton: I was gonna ask: what is their explanation for how the cataclysm is avoided?

Porter Stansberry: I don't think there is one. But I will tell you this: the word "Jubilee" is coming up more and more and more.

Buck Sexton: Like a great reset?

Porter Stansberry: A great reset. Which would be so inflationary, you couldn't imagine it. I can't remember his name – Country Club Guy, you were with me – the speaker who had been the former – Keith…?

Country Club Guy: Keith Anderson.

Porter Stansberry: Keith Anderson, yeah. It helps if your microphone's in front of your face.

Country Club Guy: Well, Jimmy mutes it. So I usually have nothing to say.

Porter Stansberry: He's shaking his head. That's on you. Your bald head doesn't sound very good. So he was the CIO and a cofounder of BlackRock, which is a pretty big firm, and he was the CIO, the chief investment officer at Soros Management for a number of years. A guy who knows what he's doing. Anyways, he said in his presentation that there would definitely be a jubilee in Japan within the next five years, where Japan just comes out and says, "We're not paying any of these debts." And Japan can probably get away with it because 90-percent-plus of their sovereign debt is held internally.

So it'll be a huge devaluation for the yen, and it'll wipe out anybody who's dumb enough to own JGBs – JGBs are the government bond in Japan, which they pay nothing; sometimes they pay less than nothing, so no one owns them. But it would be a huge experiment. I mean, I don't think anyone knows what would happen. [Laughs]. I really don't know. But I can tell you this: if that happens, if there's a jubilee in Japan, then everyone will be crying for it here. And it won't be necessarily the sovereign bonds here, although they could certainly be reset. But it's going to be the consumer debt. It's gonna be the millennials who owe $1.5 trillion on college loans that'll never be repaid.


Buck Sexton: I keep saying, the student loan bubble that people say "Bernie Sanders doesn't understand the math" – I like to remind them: to Bernie Sanders, it's not about the math. It's about the political will to override the math and then see what happens, to roll the dice. So people that say "Maybe we will get rid of that trillion-dollar student loan debt bubble," they're right in the sense that it's not about the finances.

Porter Stansberry: No. And I just want you guys who are listening to the podcast to hear this and hear it loud and clear: a global jubilee is coming. And the people who control hundreds of billions of dollars, if not trillions of dollars, in New York are aware of it. They understand the risk very well. They're not talking about it publicly yet, but trust me: they know.

And if you wanna know why gold's gone up for the last 18 months, if you wanna know why silver has been going up, if you wanna know why bitcoin's at $5,000, the real underlying reason is that the entire house of cards that we have been building for the last seven or eight years is coming unraveled. And it's coming unraveled because we've loaded so much debt on students, on corporations, on governments; we've pushed so much aggregate demand; we've pulled it all forward – so much of it – that we're now looking over at an abyss. And, politically, there is no way to get through that abyss. There is no way to restructure student loans. What's the collateral on a student loan? [Laughs]. There is none.

Buck Sexton: Backstop by the taxpayer.

Porter Stansberry: How about there's over a trillion dollars in credit card debt, where the average yield is probably 14 to 16 percent, maybe higher. No way that'll ever be paid off, ever. How about all the subprime autos that are out there. There's probably $400 to $600 billion in subprime autos where the owners will never own any equity in the vehicle ever. You know, they bought a six-year-old car with a 22% note. They're never gonna get out from under it. All that stuff is gonna come to a head. And I believe very strongly that if you look at our society and you look at the football players kneeling, and they're demanding social justice – what is social justice really, Buck?

Buck Sexton: Redistribution of wealth, my friend.

Porter Stansberry: That's what it really is. What they're really saying is that "We don't like the cards that we have been dealt. We don't like where we ended up in this society." The disparity between the rich and the poor, the games that've been played over the last several decades with asset values versus wages – wages haven't moved; asset values have soared. We are heading towards this reckoning. And I tell you what: when I used to talk like this, people thought I was crazy. When I talked about this in the mid-2000s, "Porter's just a nut." When I wrote the "End of America" promo six years ago: "Oh, that'll never happen."

Well, guess what? We lost our credit rating. Guess what? Occupy Wall Street happened. Guess what? The Baltimore riots. Guess what? NFL players, multimillionaires, kneeling in front of the anthem. It's gonna get a lot worse. And if you doubt that, just think for a second about the plight of the average 30-year-old in this country. The average 30-year-old. Not Buck.

Buck Sexton: [Laughs]. I'm just like, "It's rough, man. It's rough."

Porter Stansberry: The average 30-year-old in this country: he's not making more than $50,000 a year. $50,000 a year is the average wage. He's not making that 'cause he's only 30. He's got a student loan the average balance of which is close to $30,000. He's got a subprime car loan or the equivalent. So the average auto price is the highest it's ever been. The average home price in America is the highest it's ever been. To buy a house – think about this: for that guy to buy a house, he'd have to get – the average house in America is right around $200,000, right? So you're talking about a $20,000 down payment to have a reasonable 10% down payment. To have a good down payment, he'd need to save $40,000. That's probably an entire gross year of wages for him. It'll never happen. This guy can't buy a house. He can't really afford to buy a car. There's no way he can save money. There's a kind of hopelessness. He is stuck.

And that is what is driving these cries for social justice. The hopelessness is what's driving the frustration and the anger. And the real underlying cause is two simple factors. It's, number one, wages in real terms have not grown since the early 1970s. So the average worker in America has gotten poorer and poorer and poorer. And the number two thing – and this is what really drives it – the wages drive the poverty. But the desperation, the anger, and the hopelessness I believe is driven by unsustainable debt. And if you look at the demographics, the bottom two deciles of the American public – the bottom 20% of the wage earners: 20 years ago they had no access to debt. They didn't owe anything 'cause they were unbanked. They couldn't get any credit. Today that same cohort is the leading debtor in the country. They owe 240% of their income in debt.

Buck Sexton: Access to credit became a social justice issue. It went all the way back to the Community Reinvestment Act in the '60s. It was: "You can't use credit scores anymore. You can't use collateral. It's about redlining. It's about keeping minority communities out of the credit markets." And the government, once again, decided the numbers don't matter; it's about what's fair. Which is redistribution.

Porter Stansberry: Well, they have piled into subprime credit cards, subprime auto loans, subprime mortgages. And probably the worst is the enormous proliferation of payday lending businesses. It's just shocking. I've got some numbers. The amount of payday lending places, for example in Kansas, has grown 40-fold in the past 10 years.

Buck Sexton: And the percentages are absolutely obscene. When people hear them, they don't even believe how high they are. How is it not predatory lending? I mean, I guess there's enough – the donor class throws enough money at the politicians to say that this is okay.

Porter Stansberry: That's exactly what happens. It's political manipulation. But look: there's two things about this. And I'm of equal minds here. And you gotta hear this. Because if you hear me just saying people should pay back their debts, you're not hearing what I'm saying. There's two things, and they're equal in my mind. The number one is: there is no such thing as a predatory loan. That's a bunch of bull. The person who borrows money damn well knows he's expected to pay it back. And if he's too dumb to understand the terms, then he shouldn't sign the document. I'm 100 percent – I believe that with all of my being. Government cannot be responsible to referee willing parties making an agreement.

Buck, we hired you to host this podcast. I'm sure you took some time to understand what the compensation terms were gonna be. And if things didn't work out, what you would get. And if you didn't like the terms, then you shouldn't've done the deal. If we are expecting the government to police every single private transaction like that, there's no way. There's no way we can afford a government that can police every single transaction. If you willingly agree to a deal, then it's a deal. And the number one ethic I have in life is: "Do not aggress on other people or their property," and the number two ethic I have is: "Do all that you have promised to do." I do not think that letting people out of their commitments is reasonable, fair, or healthy, or good for society. At all. Okay? That's foremost in my mind.

But just as equally strong in my mind is this idea: there has to be a process for bankruptcy. Because if there is not, then the lenders have nothing at risk. The lender needs an obligation to make sure you do understand the agreement and that you will live up to it. He needs to have something at risk. He needs to have skin in the game. And right now, with student loans, for example, there is no way to declare bankruptcy. With subprime auto loans, there is no way to declare bankruptcy. There is no way. If you don't pay your loan, the car stops working.

Buck Sexton: It's hard to get outta credit card debt too actually. They made it harder in recent –

Porter Stansberry: It's harder to get outta credit card debt. It's not impossible, but it's harder. But my point is: when you don't allow debts to be reset, now you have an economy-wide problem because now you have a bunch of consumers who can no longer consume. And that's exactly the trap we're heading into.

So there're two things that're foremost in my mind: one, you have to be responsible for the things you've promised to do. And, two, there has to be a legal process for you to renege on your debts and suffer the consequences. So if you sell off all your assets and divide it amongst your creditors, you're done. And if they are dumb enough to make you a student loan, sorry.

Buck Sexton: Not to take us in a totally different direction, but this is at the heart of why people can't seem to figure out how to fix Obamacare and health care in the country. It's because no politician will stand up and say, "We're gonna do this thing with insurance. But if you don't buy it, no one's gonna be allowed to die in the street, but you're gonna go bankrupt." Nobody will say that. And until they say that, then there's no reason to buy the insurance; there's no reason to buy the insurance, you either have a mandate or you have a system that doesn't work.

Porter Stansberry: Yeah. By the way, we're heading head-first into a system that does not work.

Buck Sexton: Yeah.

Porter Stansberry: That's what's gonna happen. People believe that they have access to health care, but they really don't. And there's a very simple reason. Politically, people believe that health care is a right. People believe that if you fall down in the street, that society has an obligation to pick you up and fix you. Everyone believes that. They believe that as a right, like it's in the constitution somewhere. Here's the problem: you can't give someone a benefit without taxing someone else. So the government – it can't force someone to be a doctor. The government can't make hospitals work, you know? It's not like –

Buck Sexton: Unless they socialize medicine.

Porter Stansberry: It's not like the right to free speech. I can grant you a civil right; I cannot grant you a material benefit. And that's the biggest problem in our country: people don't understand the difference. And you're right: if you don't take care of yourself and if you don't save money, then you're not gonna be able to afford a private doctor. And if you can't afford a private doctor, you're gonna get caught in this socialized medicine, and it's gonna be terrible. It's gonna be pretend medicine. But the dying is gonna be real.

Buck Sexton: The most comprehensive studies on Medicaid, which is health care welfare – there was one done out of Oregon that the results all came in about a year, 18 months ago – was that the long-term health outcomes for people who have access to Medicaid versus people who have nothing – zero –

Porter Stansberry: Way better to have zero.

Buck Sexton: It's not better to have Medicaid. I mean, they're more or less the same.

Porter Stansberry: Look at the VA hospitals. Does anyone in their right mind wanna go to a VA hospital? I mean, every four or five years a journalist wins a Pulitzer because he goes into a VA hospital and documents how terrible they are.

Buck Sexton: Yeah. Filthy conditions, unsanitary, the waiting list and everything. Yeah. So that's what people – if Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren get their way, that's what you'll have to look forward to at the doctor's office.

Do we wanna get to a wonderful guest, by the way?

Porter Stansberry: Yeah. Let's move on from jubilee and debt crisis to a way to make some money.

[Music plays]

Buck Sexton: All right. So we've got Tama Churchouse with us. Tama opened his first brokerage account at the age of 16. Along with his father, Peter, he established Churchouse Publishing in 2012 with the aim of bringing independent, no-nonsense analysis and research to those who take an active interest in creating and managing their own wealth. He draws on over a decade of experience working for investment banks, most recently at JPMorgan, working on derivative structuring and marketing for private banks in the Asia region. Along with his role at Stansberry Churchouse Research, he manages a portfolio of internal money for the family office in listed securities and real estate. He has a degree in economics from the School of Oriental and African Studies in London. And he lives in Honk Kong with his wife and three children.

Please welcome Tama Churchouse.

Porter Stansberry: How are things?

Tama Churchouse: Good. Thanks, Porter. Glad to be here.

Porter Stansberry: Okay. So I just wanna dive right into this. Tama, when did you buy your first virtual currency, and which one did you buy?

Tama Churchouse: It was bitcoin, and it was in 2013 I believe.

Porter Stansberry: So that was pretty late into the whole process. Bitcoin had already had a couple of big peaks and valleys at that point.

Tama Churchouse: It was still pretty early. It was still very difficult in our part of the world, in Asia, to actually buy bitcoin. So finding a decent exchange was pretty difficult. My first bitcoin I actually bought in cash from a friend of mine. And it was still about $100 or so I think at the time. So it was still pretty early on compared to where it is now.

Porter Stansberry: And why on earth did you do this? What possessed you to go out and put money into a currency that's not backed by any tax base? It's not backed by any commodity.

Tama Churchouse: There were a couple of reasons. One: it was interesting to me. I mean, as a researcher and someone who's interested in financial markets, it was interesting. And the second reason was a good friend of mine, who is a real tech evangelist, had kept bugging me and bugging me and bugging me. And finally I relented. And that was really when I kinda started the journey and opened the Pandora's box that is crypto assets in general.

Porter Stansberry: So you bought your first bitcoin. And then what happened next? How did you go from that to being on the boards of these companies and becoming a bitcoin or a virtual currency evangelist yourself?

Tama Churchouse: I mean, I was skeptical for a very, very, very long time. And really a big part of that was because most of what you read about bitcoin in the media in particular was extremely negative. It was: "Bitcoin is for drug dealers. Bitcoin is for money laundering. That's all it is. There's no other use case for that." And I'll admit: I think I was pretty swayed by some of that. And it took me kind of a long time, until really early 2016, where I was able to kind of put that aside and actually see the emergence of these other crypto assets and think, "Actually, there is something much much bigger at play here, and much much bigger than bitcoin."

Porter Stansberry: So I do understand a little bit about bitcoin. I understand the software. I understand how it works. I understand how its value is – really fascinating how it grows incrementally, so it requires more and more computer power to make the same amount of bitcoin, and it's basically in tandem with Moore's law. So it's not getting easier to mine bitcoin; it's getting harder. And it'll get astronomically harder before the final bitcoin is mined. It's a really brilliant software idea. The question I have is: since we have bitcoin and it works very well – it's incredibly robust; it's a beautiful, elegant software – why do we need more virtual currencies? Why can't we just use bitcoin?

Tama Churchouse: You know, so one of the biggest misconceptions is that – there are around 1,200 crypto assets trading at the moment, and generally you'll hear them referred to as cryptocurrencies. Which is a real misnomer. Because they're not currencies. A currency that we would typically – we would view as bitcoin, for example, whose sole function is the transfer and storing of some modicum of digital value. Most digital assets, most crypto assets are not currencies. They have some other element of utility behind them. They're either decentralized organization, almost like shares in a way, or they can be utility tokens. Or they can be protocol tokens. I mean, there're a huge array of crypto assets out there. So currency is just a tiny tiny fraction of what the technology does.

Porter Stansberry: See, this is the limit of my knowledge. I don't know – I can't figure out what the other tokens are for. Can you give me an example?

Tama Churchouse: Okay. I'll try and phrase it a different way. If you think of the Internet in the 1990s, what was really one of the first use cases of the Internet? The real proof of concept was e-mail. You remember in the early '90s they started Hotmail? And that was a fantastic proof of concept. And it was really the first thing that everyone could kinda grasp and go: "Okay, I can send an e-mail. I can receive an e-mail. This is what the Internet brings." And then you can see everything that has come from the Internet: all of these businesses.

It's similar with blockchain and bitcoin at the moment. Bitcoin is just the first proof of concept. It's the equivalent of e-mail in the 1990s. And what's coming behind it are all of these extraordinary businesses. And one of the biggest ones are crypto protocols. And I'll give you an example. If you think of the Internet, it was entirely built on things like HTTP, IMAP, SMTP. All of these protocols which underpin the entire Internet backbone as we know it. Now, those protocols are being built for a blockchain version of the Internet. And you can actually buy into those protocols.

So the difference is: every single time you go to a website or open an e-mail, you're using SMTP or you're using HTTP, but they're free. In the blockchain space, you can actually buy into these new protocols. And those are the foundation that an entire new Internet of value transfer is gonna be built on. So that's kind of when things start to get really exciting. And it's really nothing to do with currency at all.

Porter Stansberry: Well, now you've told us all this, Tama, [laughing], why should we be tuning into the webinar tomorrow night? What else do you have to share with us?

Tama Churchouse: Well, we're gonna go through everything from bitcoin, outlining really what it is, to obviously talking about – ICOs I think get a lot of the press at the moment. We'll be talking a bit about some of the guys who've been very vocal recently – Jamie Dimon, Larry Fink – is that his name? I don't remember his name.

Porter Stansberry: Larry Fink at Blackstone?

Tama Churchouse: Yeah. He's been very negative.

Porter Stansberry: This is very threatening to the established banking order.

Tama Churchouse: Hugely. I mean, these guys are terrified. Because the future –

Porter Stansberry: They real job is maintaining a registry. We don't need that anymore.

Tama Churchouse: Yeah. The bank of the future is not a financial institution; it's a technology company. Lloyd Blankfein realizes that. That's why a third of his employees are in tech.

Porter Stansberry: Let's hope that the future of newsletter companies is not a technology company.

Tama Churchouse: Absolutely not. No way.

Porter Stansberry: Can robots tell stories?

Tama Churchouse: Nope. Certainly not.

Porter Stansberry: I hope they don't get that good. We'll be in trouble.

Tama Churchouse: But yeah: in the webinar we're gonna cover a lot. We're gonna cover a lot of people's main objections to bitcoin, things they're worried about, volatility, ICOs. It's gonna be pretty exciting. And I've obviously got – we've got a special guest here and he's a pretty extraordinary young guy. He built and sold his first multimillion-dollar company when he was a teenager. He is one of a handful of people who I would say are kind of real visionaries in the space, who kind of see three or four steps ahead of the rest of us. And I'm gonna be delighted to introduce him to you as well.

Porter Stansberry: I'm looking forward to it. Well, that'll be tomorrow night. Buck, you have the details for folks who want to learn more about virtual currencies, bitcoin, and blockchain.

Buck Sexton: Yes. Just go to, that's You can check all of it out for free. And I am going to as well.

Porter Stansberry: Okay. Tama, I got one more question for you. Not relating to virtual currencies or blockchain. You have been around the financial industry for a long, long time. And you have seen lots of bad financial ideas. You've seen lots of great financial ideas. Besides blockchain, where do you have capital invested, and what is an area of the global economy that you're excited about outside of virtual currency?

Tama Churchouse: I think Chinese technology is still gonna be I think equally as big an opportunity as blockchain. If you look at what's happening in China at the moment – I'm base in Hong Kong. Stansberry Churchouse Research are based in Hong Kong and Singapore. What we're seeing – the Chinese have decided that they are going to be the technological leaders of the world. And what does that mean? It's means artificial intelligence. It means quantum computing. And these guys are pouring just an insane amount of money into dominating these two spaces. And I can tell you right now: the rest of the world doesn't stand a chance.

I mean, every year you've got around 4.5 million STEM graduates, science, technology, engineering, and mathematics graduates in China: 4.5 million every year. I think in the U.S. you have around half a million graduates total. So every year you've got five million qualified workforce folks going into technology domestically. They've got the backing of the government. You've got effectively a new Silicon Valley being built in the greater area of Shenzhen. A friend of mine – he's an older guy. He works for one of the most respected and prestigious quantum computing outfits out there. I mean, the guy – when he was interviewed, one of his interviewers was Stephen Hawking. He went and visited Tencent. He'd been meeting with them for about five minutes and they just simply turned to him and said, "How much? What's it gonna cost for you to come and join us?" That's the state of play at the moment.

So I think you have to have some exposure to China's technology sector. You absolutely have to.

Porter Stansberry: Great answer. Tama, thanks for joining us. I think we're gonna be spending the afternoon together. I don't know how many pheasants you've ever shot before, but I'm hoping to increase that number this afternoon.

Tama Churchouse: Zero. I shot a duck once, but it was sitting down at the time, so –

Porter Stansberry: Well, these'll be flying. And the most important rules are: don't shoot the guy in the orange shirt – that's me – and don't shoot the dog. Otherwise, we're gonna have a great time.

Tama Churchouse: Outstanding. Can't wait.

Porter Stansberry: All right. Thanks very much.

Tama Churchouse: Thanks, Porter.

[Music plays]

Porter Stansberry: Buck, anything else we should be doing on the podcast today?

Buck Sexton: Yeah. We have some mailbag fun if you wanna get into that. What do you say?

Porter Stansberry: I like the mailbag.

Buck Sexton: I enjoy the mailbag too. Get to hear from all the wonderful Stansberry Investor Hour listeners, subscribers.

Porter Stansberry: The poor sufferers I call them.

Buck Sexton: All right, Porter. We've got mailbag this week. Let's get into it. First we have paid-up subscriber Nakil. He writes, "Hey Porter and Buck, I was intrigued to learn about the max yield strategy Porter mentioned on the Investor Hour a few episodes ago. I read a little bit about the strategy online and it appears that Turkey still offers the highest interest rate in the OECD. I was wondering if you could explain how exactly, as a U.S. citizen, we can capture that yield. Would we need to open a Turkish bank account? I was not able to find U.S. banks which offer Turkish CDs as another option. Would appreciate an explanation on how we can implement this strategy." Yeah, Porter.

Porter Stansberry: Listen, I have to tell you: I have no experience opening a Turkish bank account. I don't know the answer to that question. We went to our friends at EverBank, which do offer a wide range of savings accounts with different currencies and foreign bonds. And they can't do the Turkish lira as a standalone currency. So what I would tell you to do is go to a good international broker. You could go to Interactive Brokers. You could go to a firm that I'm familiar with in Central Florida called International Assets Advisory Corporation. And you should be able to buy Turkish sovereign bonds through a broker. So instead of opening a bank account, you could buy some short-term bonds.

That's my best tip. I have to tell you: I've never done it. So I really don't know the exact mechanics. And the failsafe answer is: sure, hop on a plane, go to Istanbul, open a bank account.

Buck Sexton: There we have it. Just don't criticize the government 'cause they're not into that over there.

Porter Stansberry: Yeah.

Buck Sexton: From a political risk perspective, you don't wanna hang out in Turkey for too –

Porter Stansberry: Yeah. And I wouldn't go anywhere near southeastern Turkey either.

Buck Sexton: That's right.

Porter Stansberry: The Kurdistan region's a little volatile.

Buck Sexton: It depends on what your idea of a "spicy vacation" is. But that would be a little rough these days.

Porter Stansberry: Yeah.

Buck Sexton: By the way, today – we'll get into ISIS in a second, but the capital of the Islamic State though has fallen officially. As we are on this podcast.

Porter Stansberry: What was the capital of the Islamic –?

Buck Sexton: Raqqa in Syria.

Porter Stansberry: Raqqa.

Buck Sexton: Yeah. It was quite a crap hole, from what I understand. But now it is at least in the hands of the good guys. So there you have it.

Porter Stansberry: Great. We control another crap hole.

Buck Sexton: Let's get into number two in the mailbag this week. Porter, this comes from Eric. "I enjoyed the interview with Erez Kalir. You mentioned that you have all of yours and your family's assets managed by Erez."

Porter Stansberry: No. That's not what I said.

Buck Sexton: I'm not saying you said it [laughs]. I'm just reading what the guy wrote in.

Porter Stansberry: Erez doesn't manage my company, my farm, my real estate, my apartments. I don't have all of my assets through Stansberry Asset Management.

Buck Sexton: Should I just vote Eric's e-mail off the island right now.

Porter Stansberry: No. I just – when someone says you said something that you didn't say –

Buck Sexton: I hear you.

Porter Stansberry: For the listeners out there, I want to make just one point very clear: Stansberry Asset Management is a separate business entity, completely different board of directors, a different ownership group than my publishing company, which is Stansberry Research of course, as you know. And the two don't mix. Erez manages Stansberry Asset Management in New York, and I of course – I'm involved in the management of Stansberry Research in Baltimore, Maryland.

It's important for me just to make sure everyone understands: Erez does not have any kind of early access to our newsletters. He is a subscriber just like everybody else. And his management choices, his investment choices, are going to be different for each individual client. So it's not as though you get to invest in a newsletter if you put your money with Erez. He's a money manager who relies on our research, but there's no – it's not as though you're gonna have Steve Sjuggerud or Porter Stansberry managing your money because we don't do that. We just do research.

Buck Sexton: Eric writes, quote, "I am wondering why you do not manage your assets yourself. You have a wealth of research available to you and I'm sure you have a great network of folks in the investing world." Okay. There you go.

Porter Stansberry: Why don't I manage my assets myself?

Buck Sexton: Yes.

Porter Stansberry: Well, there's lots of reasons. First of all, I have a full-time job. I run a global publishing company. I'm actually the chairman now, thankfully. I have someone else to be the CEO, thank God. When people come to me with problems, I can just say, "That's the door down the hall." So I'm working on a book about Warren Buffett, and I run a financial company. And I have a ten-year-old and a six-year-old and a wife that I adore. So I don't wanna spend my time managing my personal finances. I prefer to have a professional do that for me.

The other thing – and this is the biggest thing – is: the ethics of my business prohibit me from managing my own money. So we run an independent research company. So imagine, if you would, trying to invest in the capital markets where all of your best ideas – your top 20 or 30 ideas every year – you have to give to your subscribers and you're not allowed to invest in directly[laughs]. It'd be very difficult to do. So I give my subscribers all of my best ideas. Those ideas end up being published in a newsletter that Erez Kalir is allowed to read after we publish. And then he takes those ideas and invests my money in them for me. So it's a separation between the act of writing and managing our total portfolio at Stansberry Research, the model portfolio we maintain – that's separate from my investing.

So I don't have any idea what Erez has put into my account. I have a personal CFO – Maria Perez is her name. She interfaces with Erez to make sure that the account is doing well. I don't know what stocks Erez has bought for me. I have no idea. I don't know when he buys, when he sells. So that way I can continue to operate my newsletter totally independently. And if I make a mistake, which I do, my subscribers at least know it was an honest mistake. I'm not doing anything in our newsletter or portfolio to influence, one way or the other, what happens with my own personal assets. But I will tell you: even if I didn't have that rule, Buck, even if I could invest directly on my own, I wouldn't. Because doing so is a full-time job.

And I encourage anyone that has more than half a million dollars in assets to hire either Erez at Stansberry Asset Management or someone like Erez to do the job for you, to meet with you three or four times a year, to hear what your interests are – like Tama just said, get involved in Chinese technology. You tell Erez, "I wanna have an allocation to Chinese technology." I guarantee you he's gonna do a better job of allocating, diversifying, and managing risk than you will.

Buck Sexton: What do you suggest for people with less than a half a million dollars of asset to invest?

Porter Stansberry: Then you have to do it yourself. There is no way you can afford a good enough asset manager to operate on your behalf if you have less than that. It's just not worth it. So then you have to do the hard work, which I did for many years. I think I first hired Erez maybe two years ago. And prior to that, I had to do it all myself. And so I largely avoided stocks because I couldn't invest directly in what I was writing about. So I largely bought real estate and apartments and timber and other things. But it's a lot of work. I mean, just keeping track of the taxes, for example. I mean, there's a lot that goes into being an asset manager beyond picking stocks. And I'm really good at picking stocks and that's what I like to do, so that's what I do for a living. But I don't manage my own assets.

And the two reasons are: one, it takes a lot of time, and, two, in my position, I cannot manage my assets directly.

Buck Sexton: All right. Last one on the mailbag for the Stansberry Investor Hour this week. This is from a paid-up alliance member, but no name given. "Buck, I enjoyed your presentation at the Stansberry conference last week, which I barely made it to since the Iraqi government closed Kurdistan airports right after I left Iraq. And that leads to my question. What is your opinion on Kurdistan independence? The Kurds voted 92% in favor of independence. Iraq, Iran, and Turkey are, not surprisingly, imposing economic sanctions and threatening military action. The U.S. is not supporting an independent Kurdistan publicly, but I was just on an assignment in the region and we are using a lot of Kurdish support in fighting ISIS."

And then: "Porter, it was a pleasure to meet and speak with you at the conference in Las Vegas. I hope you like the flag." So I'm assuming you know who we're talking about here.

Porter Stansberry: I do like the flag very much. It was one of the most touching gifts any subscriber has ever given me. This subscriber is involved in U.S. Special Forces, and he brought me a flag that was flown, in a location that will not be disclosed, on 9/11 this year. They did a group of them. They did a special plane fly-by and then they distributed the flags as gifts to supporters like me.

Buck Sexton: Well, as to his question, I'm supportive. And in fact I was on the Bret Baier panel earlier in the week at Fox News dealing with this question, and I started off by saying that I am favorable and supportive of the Kurds and Kurdish independence. I know the administration is opposed to it right now. That's because in the near term it would make things messier. And anything to a government that I think right now is already in a bit of a quandary as to how to actually get some of its agenda implemented on the home front – they don't wanna add to their plate of problems.

And Turkey doesn't want a Kurdish independent state in Iraq. Iran doesn't want one. And certainly the Iraqis don't want one for a bunch of reasons, notably the oil issue around Kirkuk, but also just the central government, which is largely driven by, and some even argue a puppet of, Iran. The central government in Baghdad doesn't want there to be any dislocations of people. They don't want there to be a disintegration of the Iraqi state, even though Iraq is really the Middle East's Yugoslavia. So that's why they don't want it.

I can tell you why we should want it or we should go for it. And I can tell, based on your question, that you appreciate – and also from what Porter tells me about your background – you appreciate that the Kurds have been a stalwart ally in the messiest, most violent, most terrible part of the Middle East for not just years, but for decades, in fact stretching long before our invasion in 2003. Americans, Europeans, people from all over the world can visit Kurdistan and were able to visit Kurdistan even in the worst parts of the Iraq War and know that they were safe and that the Kurdish government and the Kurdish Peshmerga would do what they could to keep them that way.

The fact that the Kurds have been able to attract foreign investment – including a lot of it from Turkey, by the way – while the country has gone to hell over the course of many years, shows you what a determined and cohesive group like the Kurds can accomplish. I think it would be a symbol not just to the Middle East but to the entire Muslim world that allies of the United States are rewarded, that a Muslim country in the midst of the Middle East, or rather a Muslim movement that becomes a country is a beacon to others that it is possible to be prosperous and to stop fighting and to be stable and secure in this neighborhood.

And I also think that we have a debt of honor to the Kurds. I think we owe them for not just helping us keep things as quiet as they could in their region, but also fighting the good fight alongside us against the Islamic State now, and before that, Al-Qaeda in Iraq and various jihadist insurgencies. So the Kurds have earned our help to transition into a state of their own. They were promised one back in the days of Woodrow Wilson. They've been promised by the international community many times they would have their own state. I think that this would be a visionary move by the Trump administration. I think unfortunately, they will not push on it right now.

Porter Stansberry: Well, there you go, for all of you guys who were worried about the fate of the Kurds.

Buck Sexton: And with that, I think we are closing up shop on the Stansberry Investor Hour for this week. If you have not already, please do subscribe to the podcast. You can subscribe on your Apple podcast app, on Google Play, on Stitcher, or wherever you find the podcast. Leave us that review or comment. Your feedback is essential to this team. It helps us grow this show, reach more people. I mean, think about all the information just on bitcoin alone this week. I've learned more here than I've learned from reading anything else anywhere else.

You can find more from going to "Stansberry Investor Hour." So go check that out. And you can subscribe, like I said. Please do. And leave us that comment whenever you get the chance. [email protected] if you wanna send us an e-mail. [email protected]. Love us or hate us. Just don't ignore us. Right, Porter?

Porter Stansberry: Love us or hate us. Don't ignore us. And please: just send us something. The podcast is free. But the only thing we want in return is a comment. Agree with something, disagree with something, like Buck, hate Buck, think Porter is annoying or arrogant or obnoxious, think Country Club Guy needs to get a life and a job, whatever. Just tell us something.

Buck Sexton: [Speaking with an accent]. That Arianna should host. No more guesting. Only hosting. Porter, I have a lifestyle book I want you to review for the Stansberry –

Porter Stansberry: And let us know how you like Arianna.

Buck Sexton: [Laughs].

Porter Stansberry: She's my favorite. I love when she makes the impromptu appearances.

Buck Sexton: I actually have some connectivity to Arianna through a friend. So maybe we could even get her on this show sometime. Doubtful, but I might ask.

Porter Stansberry: If you could interview Arianna as Arianna, that would be podcast gold.

Buck Sexton: I agree.

Porter Stansberry: Gold, Jerry.

Buck Sexton: If she was a cool enough person and not a megalomaniac, that might actually be possible. By the way, we're gonna be back next week, and Porter will be welcoming Kevin O'Leary from ABC's hit show Shark Tank. Kevin recently appeared at the Stansberry Conference in Las Vegas. So we'll look forward to catching up with him again and finding out all about his preferred investment strategies outside his Shark Tank deals. Looking further down the road, we'll welcome legendary investor Jim Rogers to the Stansberry Investigator Hour in early November. Thanks again for listening, everybody. Buck and Porter, over and out.

Porter Stansberry: Signing off.

Buck Sexton: We will see you next week.

Announcer:Thank you for listening to the Stansberry Investor Hour. To access today's notes and receive notice of upcoming episodes, go to and enter your e-mail. Have a question for Porter and Buck? Send them an e-mail at [email protected]. If we use your question on air, we'll send you one of our studio mugs.

This broadcast is provided for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered personalized investment advice. Trading stocks and all other financial instruments involves risk. You should not make any investment decision based solely on what you hear. Stansberry Investor Hour is produced by Stansberry Research and is copyrighted by the Stansberry Radio Network.

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