Episodes

Dan Ferris:                 Hello and welcome to the Stansberry Investor Hour. I’m Dan Ferris. I’m the editor of Extreme Value and The Ferris Report, both published by Stansberry Research.

Corey McLaughlin:    And I’m Corey McLaughlin, editor of The Stansberry Daily Digest. Today we’re going to talk with E.B. Tucker, friend of Stansberry Research and author of the Tucker Letter.

Dan Ferris:                 Yeah, E.B. is a fairly well known, I would actually say, you may not have heard of him. But a fairly well known American author, analyst and investor. He’s been active in many sectors of finance including precious metals investing. He’s written several books. One of them is Why Gold, Why Now? The War Against Your Wealth and How to Win It.

Another one is A New Case for Gold, where he just advocates for the role of gold as a hedge against instability and inflation. And I’ve known him for about 10 years. He's a smart guy, smart investor. As you’ll find out in the interview, he gets all involved in the companies that he owns, you know? He votes the proxy and sometimes he even gets on the board. He’s served on boards over his career. And I just found him a really nice, fun guy to talk with, didn’t you?

Corey McLaughlin:    I did too. And he’s working on a new book. He’ll share insight into that process, and what you can expect from that. And as we were talking, I was kind of getting fired up to go run through a wall and make some changes in my life, based on what he was talking about. You’ll hear what I mean, I think, and how that relates to investment.

Dan Ferris:                 Ditto, absolutely. He’s always been like that. He’s always been an inspiring guy. Let’s give you a little taste of what we’ve had for many years with our friend E.B. Tucker. Let’s talk with him. Let’s do it right now.

E.B., welcome to the show, it’s good to see you again. It’s been a while.

E.B. Tucker:                Yeah, thanks for having me.

Dan Ferris:                 I think, I remember running into you in an airport once. And then maybe at a conference another time. And I don’t know how long it’s been. It could be 10 years.

E.B. Tucker:                It’s almost like we have a contract that we’ll never meet in a sophisticated place. Only in the terminal of an international airport or something, like spies.

Dan Ferris:                 That’s right. Yeah, like spies. We know too much. We’re dangerous.

Corey McLaughlin:    You guys handing stuff to each other in the concourse?

E.B. Tucker:                That’s right. That’s right. It’s hard to evade capture now because since the addiction to the smartphone, which I like to call the voluntary tracking device. It’s nearly impossible. Because if you don’t have the phone you’re some kind of freak, right? You go somewhere and they say we’ll buzz you on your cellphone when it's time for you to have your table. I don’t have a cellphone. They say like, well something must be wrong with you. It’s very funny how things evolve.

Dan Ferris:                 We really have no privacy anymore, do we.

E.B. Tucker:                No, no. And the other thing that’s funny is people really freak out about the notion of being chipped. You know, people are like, it’s a huge trigger thing where you say well, I’m not, well, you’re already chipped.

Dan Ferris:                 Hello.

E.B. Tucker:                You’re voluntarily chipped, you know. And yeah, your car is connected. Everything is connected already. You already accepted it. And but you really draw the line on anything crossing the skin barrier.

Corey McLaughlin:    Well, that’s fair I would say.

Dan Ferris:                 The other one –

Corey McLaughlin:    Yeah, you know, the skin barrier is another [inaudible].

Dan Ferris:                 Bringing that up, though, like the skin barrier is like way cross. China has your DNA. So when I tell people that my wife and I have done 23andMe to find out who our ancestors are, they’re like oh, they have your DNA. I’m like, they have yours too, you know. Like, they’re collecting DNA from all around the world. They have the largest collection of genetic material in the world. And it’s probably got yours in it too. So we have no privacy.

E.B. Tucker:                I mean if you really go far with it, it’s like they also have your children and your soul. I mean, if you, I have small kids. And I just, it’s unbelievable. People submit to public education and, I have kids only part of the time, you now. I’m a single father, so I’m like, I don’t do any homework. I don’t do any, I just tell them don’t even worry about it. If you can count and read and get along with people you’re pretty much good to go.

And it’s so radical, right? And then I explain to the kids’ mom, look at the people giving you the advice that you take so seriously. I mean, it’s unreal that you would take guidance from these people. People go right along. You’re a radical if you don’t do exactly what the food pyramid says and the, you know, like the whole thing is like a joke, you know. And it has no correlation to success. In fact, I’m writing this new book. It’s nothing to do with finance. It’s all these life stories that I’ve been wanting to write for a long time.

And I’m almost done with it. I’m actually editing right now, probably another couple weeks. And I’m kind of explaining these types of things to people, and I’m just like you know, I look back at my life and see how breaking out of the conventional system caused a lot of pain for me. And later in life, it’s like this great thing that you’re going to read a whole book about. But it’s not great when you’re going through it. It feels terrible to be put on the outside, beyond the pale. It’s really confusing.

But what you learn, like I’ve been on corporate boards. I’m not on any boards these days. But I’ve been on corporate boards. And you meet these KP&G guys that retire and they’re terrified. Like, they’re actually terrified, because the leadership says if you don’t find something to do you’ll die, because you were so good at operating within a defined corral for decades that you’ll literally die when you leave the corral. And it’s like, that’s success?

I mean, I’m not knocking these guys. I’m just saying it gives you something to think about. And then the radicals write books later in life. But at the time you whip these kids for not adhering to this nonsense guidance. It’s really strange. And I don’t have any solutions, by the way. I’m just saying sometimes it’s good to think about these things and to think about like wow, what did all that mean? All that stuff that I went through. What was that all about?

Dan Ferris:                 I’ll tell you what it was about. You want to know? I’ll tell you. There are no solutions. There are only tradeoff, E.B., and you made a big one. And I’m willing to bet that you think it was the right one. There you go. Well put, yeah.

E.B. Tucker:                That’s so funny. To your point it’s like yeah, at the end of the book I write this thing called the manifesto. And it’s like I’m entering this period called E.B. 6.0. And so I get really real with the reader, and I say you’ve got to understand something. Right now, I’m in a transition and transitions are really hard. They feel like they’re never going to end.

And they’re never going to get better, and they’re never going to, and every single time it feels the same way. And all these weird things happen. You lose a big chunk of your friends. Why does that happen? Because you’re evolving as a person. You’re accepting the fact that you’re kind of like, shifting maybe out of a relationship, out of a job, out of an identity, out of whatever it is. And if you don’t want to do that, you never change. And so I kind of say to people, I’m not encouraging you to get rid of half your friends.

But it is funny how if you embrace the flow of life, there will be people that could flow a different direction. Can you let them go? Can you let companies, can you walk away from stock options? Can you have a company where you’re on the board, and you say it’s not being run properly and I’m going to leave. And they say here’s a butcher knife to the back.

Can you say thank you for the opportunity? I’m now leaving, and I’m not going to cling on to being afraid to compromise myself for stock options, which are inherently pieces of paper. How much am I willing to compromise on what I believe for paper? That’s like a philosophical question, right? Paper is more valuable than the insights I’ve put together in 50 years.

So to you point, there’s not like a bottle of a solution you can go buy at the Whole Foods Pharmacy or something. It’s not like that. We want to have these static answers, and sometimes the answer is in just thinking about the question and not being afraid. Like, we’re really afraid. That’s, as humans, we’re terrified that things will change. But we also want things to get better. So you know, it’s this whole, it’s not as complicated as it might sound, either.

Because everybody has this beautiful journey that they’re on. I don’t care who you are. You have something special that you’re good at doing, OK? It doesn’t matter what level you are in the meritocracy of America, which is total nonsense, really. There’s something you’re good at doing. And when you do that you’re happy. You’re really happy. And you just need to do that. That’s what you do. It’s not like this complicated system that everybody else figured out and you didn’t.

Dan Ferris:                 Yeah, we had a similar discussion to this last week in Vail. I attend VALUEx Vail which is put on by an investor called Vitaliy Katsenelson. Really good guy, who attracts lots of amazing people around him. And you know, at breakfast it always gets philosophical. And that idea that you’ve got to do what you are, I think it goes farther.

There’s a great quote in a really great book called the hard thing about hard things, by Ben Horowitz, one of the founders of a16z that, the venture capital fund. And he says you know, embrace your weirdness and your background and your instincts. If the keys aren’t in there, they don’t exist. And it just reminds me of other things that other people have said.

Even like, what’s that guy’s name, Jon Stewart. You know, the comedian. He said at one point in his life he was like well, this is my life. This is who I am. And you, the sooner you get to that point, oddly enough the better you’ll be at growing and changing. But the sooner you accept where you are and who you are and embrace it and work it and celebrate it, I agree. That’s the thing to do. It’s hard, though. It really is hard. You have to find out. Because you have to find out where that fits in with the rest of the world, and that may not be easy.

E.B. Tucker:                For sure. Yeah, it doesn’t mean like running around and shoving it in people’s face.

Corey McLaughlin:    No. Yeah.

E.B. Tucker:                It means letting go. When people fire you it means saying sorry it didn’t work out, and shake hands and move on like a gentleman or a lady or whatever the case may be. That’s tough, you know, because you get that feeling of oh, I’m wounded, I’m not accepted. Well, you’re not going to be accepted by half the people. That’s inevitable, you know? Maybe something better will happen. It’s like, did you ever think about that?

Dan Ferris:                 Yeah, the possibility of things improving after some negative event like a firing. Or actually, you know, this is a financial show. We can relate it right to investing. The possibility that taking a loss and moving on is like a really good thing is hard. It is hard. But once you learn that, it’s a real life skill with teeth, you know? It’s serious. It’s a serious skill.

And the first time you get that feeling like you took your loss and you moved on, and it was the right thing to do, it’s like a revolution, you know? It’s like oh wow, I’m going to make it. I’m not going to lose it all. Because the people who won’t move on, they lose it all. They hang on until minus 90% or minus 100% or something.

E.B. Tucker:                Yeah, that’s right.

Dan Ferris:                 So that’s what you’re faced with in life. You can lose a little or you can lose it all.

E.B. Tucker:                And people say oh, these are two headsy topics. But it’s not true, Dan. It’s not true at all. It’s like if you’re, one of the problems that I thought I would mention to you that I find with people, it’s like I always tell people if you’re not willing to vote the proxy for your stock, you should not own stock. And people are like it’s too complicated, it’s junk mail. I’m like, look, the whole premise of owning the stock is that you get to elect the board.

The board hires management. They run the company. And if they’re not doing a good job, like having sat on boards before that I don’t think are run properly. Like, why don’t you vote? Well, I’ll tell you why you don’t vote. It’s because when you bought the stock, you didn’t really want to buy the company. What you wanted was a secret tip to change your life or to gamble or something. And you should just save yourself time and put $100 on the Eagles for the football game and just have a bunch of beer and star at the television. That’s really what you want is entertainment.

And owning stock is not entertainment. It’s like, you would never buy, you know, this is some sort of local plumbing business or something for entertainment. I mean, it would be like, if we don’t control costs and grow the business and operate this thing properly, we’re going to lose all the money. And that’s the attitude that people should have when they buy stock, and they don’t do it. And they never examined their premise of buying the stock. Like, that’s when people say oh, it’s just play money.

There’s no such thing as play money. Like I mean, if there was, you would just throw it out the car window, because it would be for play or something. So you don’t actually believe that. But you use that as your excuse to gamble. And I just think the more you do that, you’re never going to be successful doing that. And if you have one share of stock, if you start thinking like an owner, I can promise you that you’ll have more than one share of stock someday, because you got your thinking right. And slowly over time the success followed.

Dan Ferris:                 You know, I believe that what you say is almost self-evident. Of course you own a piece of a business. And of course you should think it that way. I met people who actually, no, you don’t own a piece of a business and that’s not what it’s about at all. It’s about making money and owning the right thing and having the price go up and perform well in some period of time, like you know, a month or six months or a year or something. And I hate to say it, but I’ve met people who think that way and they make tons of money. So, there’s more than one way to –

E.B. Tucker:                But it is a thing. But they don’t say they, like the average person doesn’t, OK, so what you’re saying is right. Like, you can definitely find a heat map way of seeing things and be totally agnostic. And you’d be like, I’m buying this because it’s moving up. And that does work. Like I own Lockheed Martin right now, and I’m totally anti-war, and I think it’s going to go up 10-15% by the end of the year.

And it’s like, yeah. I mean, that’s a real thing, right? It’s not like, so that does happen. But a lot of times, people conflate all these different things together and the net result is like, lose money. I mean, there is, yeah. My CPA was like people just lose money. They give you the tax stuff, and it’s like they just generate a bunch of losses. It’s unbelievable.

Dan Ferris:                 It’s the old thing, E.B., right? It’s like the trader who says oh no, I’m in it for the long term. Because they’re down 40%, right? You weren’t interested in the long haul when you thought you were going to double you money in five minutes.

Corey McLaughlin:    Right, isn’t that the difference between trading, investing, gambling, speculating, momentum, actual investing, all those things, right?

E.B. Tucker:                Yeah. Exactly. You’ve got them all blended together. And I think it’s OK to say these are hard things to do. Obviously, controlling your mental state of mind with approaching all these, it’s not easy. And it’s not like you know, we’re talking like advance level psychoanalysis here. So I mean, all those books behind you are about like, this process, you know? But that being said, you have money if you’re a small investor, right? You have money, right?

To get that money you did something usually that required a lot of effort. And so when you start thinking about what are you going to do with that money, it shouldn’t be like a thousand to one gain or something. It’s ridiculous. I mean, it’s like what do you want that money to do for you? In this book I’m writing, I’m talking about, my grandfather taught me about stocks. And the whole way he explained it to me shaped the course of my life.

So I tell that in story form, because it’s not like a single thing. He just slowly showed me that you have this business you get paid to be part of, that you never have to show up there. He’s like, how great is that? I’m like wow, that’s amazing. You never have to put on the waste management uniform or handle any trash. You own the place. It’s kind of like, once that light bulb went off, it put me in a certain direction.

Dan Ferris:                 Did you not write about him recently? What was the stock, Jefferson Pilot?

E.B. Tucker:                Yeah. I mean, that was like the first annual meeting I went to. And I thought you would appreciate, I went to annual meetings. I’ve been to tons of them. And I’ve also been on boards where you have the annual meeting, and it’s like a joke. Nobody comes. That’s the whole thing. They’re moving to virtual now, because they’re like well, there’s no need to have these grubby shareholders anyway and it’s just a total hassle.

So I went to a meeting in Miami a few weeks ago. I took my kids, who were quite well behaved. And they have two shares of the stock. It’s the largest distributor of HVAC equipment in the world. Or, the free world. And I was the only person there. So they let me make a statement, you know? And I talked to this guy who was the president, who was the son of the founder. And see, this company, this is something you would be interested. This company has two classes of stock, right?

So I’m really into companies that have two classes of stock, because what happens is the second class of stock typically has a massive amount of votes. Like, for example Tyson Chicken, I’m obsessed with the CFO of Tyson Chicken who’s like the grandson of the founder. This guy has a drinking problem. I don’t know if you’ve seen this in the news, but he like, woke up in some lady’s house one day. Anyway, they won’t fire him. And he’s basically like, I have all this voting stock, so you can’t get rid of me. Which is true, by the way. He has like, 20 votes per share. All right.

Well, so this stock for Tyson doesn’t trade. But for this company where I went, this ten to one voting stock gets the same dividend. And then it has a super majority for 75% of the board. And it trades. And so I was telling the guy’s son, the president, I was like yeah. They’re gobbling up this voting stock for three years now. And he was like, why would you buy that?

And I was like, why would you not buy that? It trades within 2% of the regular stock. And you guys are nuts to not be soaking, now they already have plenty of course. But usually some employee retires or someone gets a divorce or whatever. And some of this stuff floats, and Morgan Stanley says it's not that liquid, so we’re just going to put it for sale and you can nibble away at it. And so, anyway, my point is, is that you learn about these things when you vote your stock.

That’s how you learn about these things. You read the proxy. It takes a few minutes. And you’re like, wow. There’s this other ticker symbol that has ten times the voting power. I don’t know, I just think people are not interested in this at all. And it’s like, why don’t you just watch SportsCenter? Why would you even be messing around with this, if you’re not going to do things like that?

Dan Ferris:                 Why would you indeed. Why would you put your life savings into something when you have no idea what you earn? To be fair.

E.B. Tucker:                Or you can have the family stock, right? For the same price. It’s kind of crazy.

Dan Ferris:                 That is an interesting setup. And you’re still, you’re accumulating that voting stock.

E.B. Tucker:                Yeah, I mean I’ve probably got enough now. I’ve been buying it since like 2022 or ’21 or something like that. I mean, I got a little bit because someone I know met one of the board members and asked me if I knew what, to look up the company on the Bloomie, right? So I did. And I was like wow, this is a pretty interesting business. I mean, that’s how you find a lot of, that’s actually like how you find a lot of businesses is by like, constantly being, learning about things.

I mean, realistically, that’s like, I don’t really run gigantic screens or something, on the terminal. I’m not like, show me every company with this. Usually what happens is, I’m studying something else that’s like, a tangent. Like, I’m in a rabbit hole or something. And I learn about some like thing that I didn’t know about. And then I rabbit hole that, and before you know it for 20 years of doing that, you know, you’re like, you really find stuff when you’re following your bliss.

Dan Ferris:                 E.B., you have to appreciate the apparent irony of talking with a fellow sitting in front of four giant screens who says I don’t run giant screens.

E.B. Tucker:                Yeah, I know, I know. The other thing that’s crazy is I don’t have a television. And people are like, it’s bizarre. Because they’re like, you have all these, but I’m like after you get done with this, who needs television?

Dan Ferris:                 Yeah, who wants it, yeah.

Corey McLaughlin:    It’s true.

E.B. Tucker:                There’s so much space for artwork when you take the television and trash it.

Dan Ferris:                 There is.

Corey McLaughlin:    And a lot of other things too, rather than a TV.

Dan Ferris:                 There’s space for other things too. Space in your mind. Have you ever read Rolf Dobelli’s book, what is it called, Avoid News I think is the title of it. I think you can get it for free.

E.B. Tucker:                No, it sounds good though. I’m reading a book now called Infinite Jest. Have you heard of it? It’s David Parker Wallace.

Dan Ferris:                 No, it sounds familiar though.

E.B. Tucker:                Yeah. Yeah.

Dan Ferris:                 Tell me about it, I’ll look it up while you’re talking.

E.B. Tucker:                I’ve had six people that, yeah, I had like six people that told me I should read the book. They thought I was a character in the book, on and on and on. So I decided to read it, because I play lots of tennis these days. Then I sit in the sauna and talk philosophy. All this is going on in the book. But Infinite Jest is a great read for people that are inclined for an 1100 page book that’s extraordinarily well written and fun. It’s a fun story about how we deal with pleasurable activities in the Western society, I think would be a fair summary.

Dan Ferris:                 So the blurb on Amazon, equal parts philosophical quest and screwball comedy. It bends every rule of fiction without sacrificing for a moment its own entertainment value. Uniquely American exploration.

E.B. Tucker:                That’s about right.

Dan Ferris:                 All right, here you go. I’m going to hit the buy now button here.

E.B. Tucker:                It’s a lot of entertainment for $17. It’s a giant book. But you know, I read this type of stuff, and I don’t really read as much finance as you would think. Because I’m reading so much all week that, I like to read things that are really well written or fun or interesting. I’m reading a book about a guy that smuggled a bunch of kilos of coffee out of Yemen, and then got, Yemenis coffee by the way is amazing. I’ve got a guy in Belfast that gets it from time to time. It’s hard to source, yeah. Because it’s so dysfunctional there.

So this guy started, got really into Yemenis coffee. And he tells the story of smuggling, and then like he was there when the Houthis took over. And he was explaining, yeah, he was explaining that you have to understand that this is kind of like a fringe group from Northern California from a village all of a sudden controls Los Angeles and San Francisco.

That’s basically what happened almost overnight. So you would be like, who are these guys from Redwood City that all of a sudden controlled downtown Los Angeles. And so he’s off in the hinterlands getting the coffee and trying to get it out into Aman –

Dan Ferris:                 What’s the title?

E.B. Tucker:                It’s totally bizarre. The Monk of Mokha. Yeah. The Monk of Mokha. That one’s here. Dave Eggars. That’s a fast read. I mean, you’re going to blow right through that. Infinite Jest takes a little longer.

Dan Ferris:                 So in Vail we talked about reading fiction. And you know, it’s a bunch of finance guys and people are talking about history books and finance books and business books. But we all agreed, like one guy said look man, I read, I thought he said spy novels or something. And I was like, I’ve read every James Bond book of Ian Fleming like five times. I’ve read every Raymond Chandler. I’m working my way through Donald Hamilton, the Matt Helm books which are excellent.

You know, you’ve got to, it’s that thing we said in the beginning. What feels right has a lot of value, you know? Things feel right to you for a reason. And I read anything now. I used to feel a little guilty about, you know, people would ask me you know, other newsletter folks or financial folks, what are you reading? And I would be like the real answer is I’m reading my way through the James Bond books for the fourth or fifth time.

But I want to say you know, I’m reading the latest by Michael Lewis or whatever. And it’s just, one of the good things about getting old, E.B., is that you lose your energy for that kind of bullshit. You don’t care anymore.

E.B. Tucker:                Yeah, you just go with it. You just flow with it. And if people are upset, you try to give them space to be upset. That’s, so yeah. That’s my whole problem. That’s why I don’t vote, right? You’ve got these, they inherently don’t, yeah. And what happens is I’ll be on a date with someone or something that’s really smart. And they’ll be like well, you’re the kind of person that should vote.

I’m like look, that’s because you think that I would validate your opinion. And to me the whole premise is off. The problem is, is that you know you’re evolved when you give people space to not agree with what you’re doing. And people don’t really do that. They say they do that, but they don’t. And so like you’re saying, if they give you criticism for the Fleming novels, you have to have this thing of like, you could very well be right. That I am wasting my time in the Fleming works. It’s possible.

Dan Ferris:                 Certainly.

E.B. Tucker:                And in retrospect later, I might see that you were right and I was foolish. However, I’m deeply engrossed in these books. And I don’t see any way I could put them down right now. So that’s kind of the attitude to have toward everything, right? Is that like, you know, you give everyone room to drive on the road.

Dan Ferris:                 Exactly. It’s a mature way of looking at things.

Corey McLaughlin:    And by the way, right, can’t this help your investing as well?

E.B. Tucker:                It’s constant. It’s constant. Yeah, it never ends. You think it’s something you master. It’s like everybody thinks OK, you dabble in Eastern philosophy and religion, right? It’s not really religion, but Eastern philosophy. And then you see a monk that gets mad. The whole nirvana thing was a scam. And it’s like no, you don’t understand. The difference between you and that guy is he got really, really authentically mad for about 12 minutes. And then he totally let it go. And so, you see how it goes? You’re not escaping the fact of being a human.

Dan Ferris:                 You never escape your humanity. You just learn how to live with it better. Yeah.

Corey McLaughlin:    And like you said I think earlier, doesn’t this help you, accepting all these things, right? And the problems, unsolvable questions, helps your investing, right?

E.B. Tucker:                You start separating, yeah. You separate things. Like, nobody likes taking a loss. Like, you were talking about taking a loss. So it’s really important to understand what’s going on in your mind. Like, during that process. And then trying to say OK, what is really happening here? I’m not trying to win anymore. I’m trying to navigate this thing. I have a loss.

But it’s going to get worse, because the company just did a $300 million ATM facility or something. And I’d better get out of this thing before I become the bait fish. So it’s, you’re trying to kind of navigate is what you’re doing. You’re trying to float along in this river. And people are really uncomfortable with that. But the thing is Dan, if you do that, what paradoxically happens is you get the power to steer once you’re floating along. And then you can just go wherever you want.

So it’s this whole trick. Like you go with the loss and you’re like, yeah, it definitely matters. It’s not like some sort of platitude that oh, it doesn’t matter to lose money. Of course it matters. That’s a stinger. I mean, it’s more fun to make money than to lose money. But only if you have fun with the money. That’s the other problem is that all these people are like I just need more. Well, what are you going to do with more? The one thing is, just to be real with you.

So I’m in a place where I do exactly what I want all the time, OK? And people are sometimes shocked because they have these ideas that I must have a private plane. I do not have a private plane, because if I want to go somewhere, I just you know, go in the first class Delta seat or whatever. It’s fine. I mean, I do some good thinking in the airport. I enjoy moving around. I kind of like it.

So they have these ideas about all this stuff. But I chose to do what I want to do, and lose money doing it, and then I said well, how much money do you need to do that? A lot less than you think. It’s actually –

Dan Ferris:                 Yeah, it’s not about the money really.

[Inaudible, crosstalk]

E.B. Tucker:                To your point –

Dan Ferris:                 It’s about living the right way.

E.B. Tucker:                Exactly. That’s another one of these things where we’ll say easy for you to say, Dan, because you’re rich. Well, what does it mean really to be rich? Being rich is being able to say no thank you. I don’t want to do that task for, in exchange for money, that makes me feel bad about myself anymore.

Dan Ferris:                 Let me tell you what being rich is.

E.B. Tucker:                Right? So I mean, so I –

Dan Ferris:                 Being rich is a whole lot of things that you realize you don’t need or want to do. Being rich is all the things you don’t do. Because financially, being rich is having, one way or another, having a giant pile of money you don’t spend. So it’s a statement about, it’s a negative statement, being rich. It’s like, I have all I need. I don’t need all this stuff that I haven’t bought. You know? It’s the other side of acquisitiveness, or the opposite really. That’s what rich is.

E.B. Tucker:                For sure. And you need friends to, you need a dialectic relationship with people that can help you sort that out, you know? I have this lawyer who is like a "Big Brother" type guy that I’ve known for about 15 years. And I have to tell him when I’m upset. So I was saying to him the other day, the problem is that I only have like nine or ten years of runway at this pace. And he laughs at me like a brother.

And he’s like, imagine telling that to someone in Calcutta. I can only take multiple tennis lessons per week, do something that I absolutely love, right? And control every moment of my life for another decade, and then it will just be awful because I’ll starve. It’s so crazy. And this is, but see, our brain does this to us, right?

So without having people that are on a similar path to talk to and to be real with, we do all kinds of crazy things. I mean, people do crazy things with money. And it’s like, they end up in these boondoggles because they don’t have what we’re kind of like being open about.

Dan Ferris:                 You’re reminding me of this story that folks tell every now and then. It goes something like you know, a rich guy goes on vacation and he goes to some tropical place and it’s really beautiful and he meets the fisherman by the sea. And the guy, he goes out and he gets a few fish and he feeds his family and they don’t really have anything. They live in a shack by the ocean and there’s really, they don’t have any money or anything. But they live OK.

And the guy starts talking to the fisherman, says you should come, he says you’re a smart guy. I can tell. We’ve been talking for a while. You should come with me, and I’ll teach you my business. You know, you can be successful and make a lot of money. And the guy says why would I want to do that? He said well then you can, you know, you have all the money you want. You can have a place by the ocean and do whatever you like every day.

And the guy’s, you know, it’s obvious what the moral of the story is there. And I think it's exactly what we’re talking about with wealth. What is wealth, and how do you view it. How do you explain, you know, like you’re saying to the guy in Calcutta that you can only do what you want for ten years. I mean, emotionally it’s just, getting out of a sort of status quo kind of way of living. As you started out saying, it's very difficult. It’s been difficult for you. I’m glad you’re writing about it. I can’t wait to see what you have to say about it in your book.

E.B. Tucker:                So that, the book’s coming. Ebtucker.com, I write about these types of things. Like, some of these questions. And I try to do it in a way that sugars the pill, right? Like one of the big things, if you have grandchildren or you have children or something. One of the big things you can do is, because I was in Japan for a big chunk of time last year. And one of the things about Japan is that people are pretty authentic with their work, right?

So if you go to have a tea service or something, the person doing the tea service is not saying well, I hate doing tea service. But I’ve got to pay off these student loans, you know, because I’ve got to do something else or whatever. Like, people in America, they always say this. Like, I know this girl who’s like oh, my boyfriend also is writing in the morning but he does tech all day. You’re never going to be successful. Never. So if you’re a parent, one of the things that’s radical is to try to tell your kid, I know this is going to sound crazy and you might lose half your friends by doing this.

But do the thing that you really enjoy doing, and make the sacrifices necessary to do it. And just watch how, when you focus on that, you will find a way to survive. Like, artist and, I mean, as a writer. Like, all this numbers, are trickery, right? Like, I’m really a writer. I tell nonfiction stories, and I’m like an orator. That’s what I do. And 300 years ago, I would have to survive on donations, you know, collected from people enjoying that, or benefactors or something like that.

So we live in this time where you can kind of do that. And you can do that with whatever your odd craft or thing that you enjoy is. And I think when you focus on that, what, you look back and you say wow. Actually it did lead me to a place that doors opened. Like, the Joseph Campbell quote. Follow your bliss, and doors will open where you didn’t see them.

Dan Ferris:                 Or the Steve Jobs quote. I like the Steve Jobs quote better, about having faith that the dots will connect in the future, you know?

E.B. Tucker:                Right. That’s right. OK, then people say well, that’s easy for him to say. OK. These people, Dan, these people show up. They show up when you’re ready for them, all right? So if you start following this way of thinking, you will meet these types of, like you will buy my book for a very low price and you will read it and something will touch you. And you need to realize that I’m giving you that information.

I don’t want to say for free, because it’s maybe $20. But for an extraordinarily low amount of money. And you find something that you need, and it speaks to you at that time, on your path, if you’re following that path. And that’s what happens when you follow it is you meet these gurus. And they don’t want anything in return from you. It’s your job to just go, just to go. They see you and they smile, because they’ve been on there before. So what’s fun is realizing that the more you follow this, you energetically find all these answers as you go. That’s what, it’s like the magic of life. If you go for it.

Dan Ferris:                 So one of the things that I have written about from times to time, not often, but a few times. It sort of comes up every now and then, and I have to deal with it, is that investing is a very personal thing. You know? It’s like anything else in life that you do well. It has to come from who you are and what you’re about, and a certain amount of self-acceptance and knowledge and what your ambitions are for yourself in the future.

It comes from like you’re saying, like people who work in Japan, that authentic approach. You know? About your work and your life and your vision for your life. And sounds like you really know who you are as an investor and that you’ve been, you know, kind of finding out since your grandfather sort of got a hold of you as a young man. Do you have any words of wisdom? I’m going to ask you directly to address the listener. Do you have any words of wisdom for them? Are there bullet points for this? How do we find ourselves as an investor?

E.B. Tucker:                So I’m going to have a book that is going to I think make a lot of people cry at times. I mean, there’s some stories that are like a little bit heavy. In fact, the four, five people that have, did the first round of proofing for me were emotionally a little bit shaken up. And that’s OK, because I’m at a place where I’m willing to talk about things that, I mean, you know I’ve never been shy to talk about sensitive things.

And I think that’s vulnerability, that’s intimacy. I think if you want that in your life, you have to share that. And so there’s things I’ll talk about that are going to be, and the reason I’m going to do that is really simple, is because you’re going to walk through those periods with me, and you’re going to think about your own journey as we do that. It’s not like a biography, because it’s not like oh, look at all the stuff I did. It’s kind of like oh, let me tell you all the things to connect with your own journey so you can see these things.

Like, Porter always said there’s no teaching. There’s only learning, right? And so I think the best way to give you people those bullet points is in story form. By the end of the book you’re going to start thinking about OK, what am I actually doing all the time, with these, where I live? If I live somewhere that I wish I lived somewhere else. That’s a problem. If I do a job, wishing I did some other job, that’s a problem. Even with your partner. You have this notion that it’s got to be a certain way. And sometimes that’s not authentic.

And it needs, by taking a risk and being true to yourself you risk the notion of being an outcast of sorts. But really actually, you’re not. You’re going to find that things do evolve. And sometimes you stand together, sometimes you don’t. My point is that I think I’m going to show people how this all worked, and then how I got here. And it’s like, the other thing about this newsletter is I just think it’s so funny how people want a secret. They want a secret. And I’m giving you the secret. And you actually don’t want the secret. You don’t have time to learn anything. You just want a code to type in. Like advancing in a video game.

Dan Ferris:                 Yeah, give me the conclusion. Give me the ticker, yeah.

E.B. Tucker:                And it’s amusing. It’s like, you’re getting the conclusion by reading. And then you don’t need me anymore. That’s the beauty of it. It does not take that long to evolve into a place where you’re like, really kind of navigating what’s the fed going to do, you know? What are we going to, it’s like, it’s not that hard. It’s really, it's not really that hard. And so with the stories, I think people are going to you know, very rapidly kind of see that wow, I’m actually on a better journey than I realized. That’s the conclusion people are going to come away with.

I’m going to trick myself into believing these platitudes. I can say yeah, there’s times that are really hard. We call those transitions. And if we go with them, you know, we go to a higher level. And they’re going to kind of see this, and it’s that way in investing too. Thinking like an owner is a trivial thing people say. They say this all the time. But part of the first step is vote your stock. If you’re not willing to vote your stock, sell it. Seriously. If you’re not willing to pay attention, sell it. one of the things I do in the newsletter is explain to people, I don’t buy stocks that are in a downtrend.

Even if it seems cheap, if it’s in a death cross, I don’t buy it. So we talk all the time about death cross, golden cross. It’s not complicated. This is not like running technical analysis. You can do this with Yahoo Finance. Super easy. Trend stays in motion for a while, OK? So we bought cybersecurity stocks last year. People were like, the PE’s 80. And it's like yeah, guess what? It’s going to be 80 for like five years, because the E’s going to grow. And that’s what happened. That’s a business you want to be in, right? There’s probably going to be some sort of cyber event, you know.

Every single human has a phone in one hand and a vape in the other hand. So how you going to shock people? You turn the phone off. That’s like, it seems logical, right? That’s the No. 1 way you could freak people out, is to make the phone go black. I’m just guessing. But my point is, that’s an example where we build out the whole thesis over time. It’s not like, at the end it’s some code or something. We’re talking about how things are evolving. That’s a trend. That’s a trend in motion. It’s a big trend.

And it’s important to really figure out what’s going on and see all sides of it. So, all this stuff ties together. It’s not hard. It should be fun. The newsletters should be fun. Remember, you were a seeker originally. I was the same way. I remember reading Doug Casey getting lost in Cambodia and thinking this is the best story I’ve ever read in my life. I mean, and then you meet Doug and he’s lost everywhere. It’s always fun to read it. And that’s what a newsletter should be about, is a symbiotic relationship between the reader and the writer.

Dan Ferris:                 There’s the word. There’s the key word.

E.B. Tucker:                That should be a joy.

Dan Ferris:                 I started asking about how do you find out who you are as an investor. And we wind up talking about relationships. And you implied this earlier, because you said yeah, there’s a way to do that. You can be an agnostic trader and not care what the business is. It goes up, you buy it. It goes down, you sell it. Whatever. But isn’t it, in the end you’re finding yourself as an investor by establishing your relationship with these investments.

Are they trades? Are you the agnostic guy? Or are you the shareholder who votes and shows up and hangs on for some time? These are relationships. And I should have known that that would be the insight that I get from E.B. Tucker. You know, as soon as we said you’re going to be on our show, yeah, we’re going to talk about relationships. That’s what we’re going to talk about, you know? So I’m not surprised that we’re here.

E.B. Tucker:                It’s a good place to be.

Dan Ferris:                 Have you always been? It sounds like with your influence from your grandfather and so forth, that orientation, that owner orientation has kind of always been there for you, no?

E.B. Tucker:                Yeah, I mean I think as a delinquent kid that had massive learning disabilities, there’s something that attracted me about being able to control your destiny a little bit or steer the ship a little bit. I remember when he taught me about mortgages. He’s on the board of a bank. And he thought it was crazy that anybody would have a mortgage. Because you basically sign this piece of paper which creates a liability for the person. And then they just, it’s like modern day serfdom. And I was like, wow. OK.

So he moved when he was probably 80 back to the town where he was from. And he bought his house, this was only like $500 grand or something. It was a huge amount of money. But I remember just like, yeah, just like went over there and like wrote the check. And I just remember thinking, what’s that like? I mean, so yeah. You find these influences. And people say oh, easy for you because you had this grandfather. But look, I mean my dad is an OK guy, right?

But I didn’t have any sort of, I mean he was a furniture salesman. So that’s like a good job. He did fine, right? We all grew up fine. But it didn’t have an effect on me. I don’t have a relationship with him now. So these people are around. They don’t have to be your father or your grandfather or, it doesn’t matter. There’s people all over the place that are totally thrilled to share experience and to tell you things. And thing you find interesting, you just bite on that and go with it. Just roll with it. Your paths can be unconventional. It can not make sense to other people.

Dan Ferris:                 It doesn’t need to.

E.B. Tucker:                And that’s just great, yeah.

Dan Ferris:                 It is, it is. Once you focus, once you say OK, I’m going to figure out myself as an investor. I’m going to figure out how to do this right. You know, it’s your attention. Your attention is finite. And once you start focusing it in an area day after day for a long times, you almost can’t help but make progress. And progress means bumping into those people and those ideas and those companies that you read about, and things that you never would have, if you didn’t make that commitment and that focus, you never would have found it.

E.B. Tucker:                It’s quantity time, not quality time.

Dan Ferris:                 Right, I’m glad you said that.

E.B. Tucker:                People think oh, if I just send a half hour focused. No. You’ve got to spend tons of hours daydreaming. I mean, I’m a huge daydreamer. I write a whole chapter in the book about getting in trouble as a kid daydreaming. But daydreaming is something that writers do, you know. It’s like a key part of the process. And so the more you daydream, the better your writing is.

And you can’t daydream if you’re at some corporation in a box all day. I mean, I did that, by the way. And I got fired. So I write about that too. What’s it like? I showed up and they were like, you were fired last week. The phone didn’t work in the office, all this stuff. And I was devastated. But I became an unemployed blogger. It was like in 2008.

Dan Ferris:                 May I ask what the gig was that you were fired from.

E.B. Tucker:                I was, yeah. I was like in this, there was a lot of things that led up to it. But I ended up in this job that was like a finance job in the insurance business. In like picture like wholesale, kind of like wholesale P&C, like the finance side of that. Like having relationships with the conduit for the insurance. And I was awful at it. I never did any, I wrote a whole chapter about this. I never did anything to help them.

I mean, I later ended up apologizing to the guy that had hired me there, because I, not like I’m sorry but just saying, I didn’t, I really kind of stole your time. Because I sat in my office and read the Wall Street Journal and drank coffee and talked to my friends in New York on the phone and stuff like that. I didn’t do any work for you. And I got fired. And the guy was super nice.

I mean, he told me that, he apologized to me because he felt like I had a lot of potential and if he had focused more time on me, whatever. So these things all come back around. But that was the jumping off point where I started. Because my friends were al like look, man, you’re driving us crazy sending us bulk e-mails with your thoughts about the markets and the world and stuff. They set up a blog for me on Blogspot.

Dan Ferris:                 I remember Blogspot, yeah.

E.B. Tucker:                Remember that? So I wrote like 150 articles on there. That’s actually how I ended up meeting Porter, was the guy, the new Porter read an article and sent it to Porter. And I don’t actually know anything about Porter, I’d heard of him. But I thought he was an old guy or something, in his 80’s or something. So his name sounds like he would be really old.

And so anyway, that’s how I met him. Yeah, originally. And so my, when you read that chapter, you see how this arrogant guy that was I don’t know, 28 or something at the time. Maybe 29, something like that. Like, being fired and I was super resistant to being fired from a job that I wasn’t good at, that I didn’t like, that I had for like a year and a half. I had some success earlier in my 20’s in sales. So I kept trying to like, migrate into finance. And unsuccessfully by the way.

Like, I would end up in these roles where they would then plug me in as a sales guy, because I would take the aptitude test or whatever and they would be like, he should be a sales guy. And so I kept ending up in these sales gigs. And so anyway, but the, what you see is that this, what I saw as terrible at the time ends up becoming you know a gateway to something that became wonderful. Because when Porter found me, it wasn’t like he had to explain how to do stock research.

It wasn’t like he had to explain, because it wasn’t right away that he found me by the way. It was like five years later. So I had done all this different stuff in the five years. I had started an RIA with a guy, you know. And we ran that for a little while. And then I’d done all this weird, I’d advanced. I’d been sharpening my skills. If you think about it, doing push-ups and sit-ups. I knew how to articulate the investment idea, and I had a lot of writing experience which Porter said made him want to commit suicide reading my writing.

But it was fixable. He said it was fixable. He’s like, you know, I’d rather teach you how to, I’d rather shave off what you’re doing here than find somebody that’s already a good writer that I have to teach about the market. You see what I’m saying?

Dan Ferris:                 I’ve heard that story a few times, yeah.

E.B. Tucker:                I explained that, yeah. I explained how that all happened. And Dan, if I had not been a full time unemployed blogger who then was forced to take all these see I’d been investing in my 20’s when I was making like high income, for my age and for my place. And so, and then I had the background. Whatever. But writing as you know, is a lot of pressure because you have to, it’s not just like making a comment at the water cooler.

It’s like you really have to get behind your idea and support it. And then it’s out there. So, and then there’s comments. So you can’t say something that’s just trivial. And so doing that and sort of meeting people. I met this guy that I did the RIA with. I met this other guy that we went on all these company visits with. You start meeting other people that are doing something you’re doing. Most of these people are more successful than me.

But they didn’t really think about it that way. They’re just like, if you’re free next month we’re going to go visit some mine or some company or whatever. You should come with us. And I would scramble. I had a roommate at the time. I would scramble with the money and fly to Mexico City. And then the company would take care of the rest, right? They would haul you out in some private bush plane and feed you and all this stuff.

And nobody really knew that I was kind of like, I don’t want to say struggling. This wasn’t like I was dirt poor. But I didn’t have sufficient income to do very much. So that was a journey. There wasn’t a thing I did that fixed all that. That was a, and the journey was magical. Like I met this guy on a trip in Mexico. They went to Harvard and Stanford. And he worked for a big fund. And he invited me to New York to go to this thing called a junta.

Dan Ferris:                 The junta! Yeah.

E.B. Tucker:                And at the junta I met Victor Niederhoffer. Yeah, I met Victor Niederhoffer. And Niederhoffer had made like seven billion or something. And I think he lost most of it. And he was sitting in this old Yale Prep school looking sweater that was like, ill-fitting. And eating a muffin. And it was like, spilling all over his chest. It was the weirdest situation. And then we listened to a lecture by John Mackey or someone, I can’t remember.

But my point is, is that I would have never been there had I not been there, had I not been there, had I not been there, had I not been there. And at no point in this time was I really even a millionaire yet. OK? So I mean, I was a thousandaire. But it’s like, I didn’t have, I wasn’t at some place where I had this level of comfort to then be able to pursue the things I wanted to pursue. I was forced to pursue them regardless of circumstances.

I had no choice. And so by having no choice, I actually was forced on to the golden path. So I want to show people all of the, so that they can say wow. Like, what in my life is happening that I should just let go and go with, instead of fighting and resisting and avoiding.

Dan Ferris:                 This makes me want to read your book. When will I be able to get it?

E.B. Tucker:                It’s coming. Yeah, I mean like, it’s 60,000 words done. I’m into the second round of edits. The only thing slowing me up is, No. 1, biweekly newsletter. The Tucker Letter comes out, I’m the only employee. I write the whole thing, proof the whole thing, everything happens with me. And July, I have you know, I get my kids for like, I’m taking my kids all these fun places.

We’re going to play tennis in Vermont. We’re going to do all this fun stuff. And I think that’s probably a good thing to do. But I’m literally almost, I’m hoping August, it’s launchpad. The whole thing is written. Now it’s a matter of smoothing it out. Because I write kind of like a depressive. Like, I did a third of the book and then I got real depressed and went to Switzerland and went skiing. I didn’t even ski that much, I just hung out. I met some super interesting people there.

And then I came back, and this girl that I’m friends with is like, what’s going on with the book? I’m like oh, I’m not feeling it. And she’s like you should start it again. So then I pick back up and go like 60%. You know how this goes. So I’ve got to make sure everything is groovy. I wrote my first book during the pandemic, which looking back on it is a great time to write a book because you can’t leave the house. So you can just blow through, I was doing 3000 words a day. So I wrote the book in 23 days. It was incredible. And this one will end up being like seven months. Still not that bad.

Dan Ferris:                 Not bad at all. Where else, tell our listeners where they can find you?

E.B. Tucker:                The only place is ebtucker.com. That’s it.

Dan Ferris:                 Just go there.

E.B. Tucker:                That’s it. I don’t do any Twitter. You can find me on LinkedIn, is the only social media. No Instagram, no Twitter, no Telegram. I don’t write for anyone else. I only write at ebtucker.com. That’s me. I don’t have any AI help. And I don’t have any you know, subordinate writing under my name. It’s only me. People should understand, Dan. I write so that my head doesn’t explode. And I also write so that people read. So, that symbiotic thing is going on. And people can sign up there for free. They can read, it only comes out every other Thursday at 9 a.m., and that’s it. And that’s the only place where I am, and I’m happily hanging out there. So ebtucker.com.

Dan Ferris:                 With that, I want to ask you my final question, which is the same for every guest. And every guest, same final question no matter what the topic. Financial, nonfinancial. Same identical question. And if you’ve already said it by all means feel free to restate it, and take you time. We can edit if you need a minute to think about the answer. But the question is simple. If you could leave our listeners with a single thought today, what would you like that to be?

E.B. Tucker:                Find a hobby. Find a hobby. One of the big awakenings that I had in my 40’s is that I really truly did not have any hobbies. I kind of like, did what we’ve talked about with work as a hobby, and I ended up in the scenario where I really didn’t have any hobbies. Sure, I did fun things and I did yoga and I did stuff like, whatever. I did stuff like this. But, and I grind my own coffee and I do all this weird stuff.

But I started playing tennis, and I’m good at tennis. And when I’m playing tennis, I don’t think about anything. I literally, there could be a mushroom cloud, and I don’t think I would notice. And so find a hobby that you enjoy. Don’t apologize for it. Spend money on it. Lose yourself in the hobby. I mean, gardening can be a hobby. Stamp collecting can be a hobby. But it’s got to be something that’s not money focused. Find that hobby and just lose yourself in the hobby and watch how much other parts of your life change with that.

Dan Ferris:                 Beautiful. Love that advice. Love it to death. Thank you. Listen man, it’s always such a pleasure to talk with you. I don’t know why I don’t do it more often. But thank you for coming around and talking with us. It was great.

E.B. Tucker:                Yep. I hope I see you. I mean, we kind of run a little bit the same circles. I hope to see you and maybe second half of the year, it’s in the cards. And I’ll sign a book for you when I do see you.

Dan Ferris:                 I’m going to hold you to it. Are you coming to Vegas, to the Stansberry event by any chance?

E.B. Tucker:                We’ve talked about it. I’m not sure it’s going to be in the cards. It’s October, right? So it’s a little tight. Maybe for a day.

Corey McLaughlin:    If not, you guys will see each other in an airport terminal somewhere.

Dan Ferris:                 That’s right. Keep traveling.

E.B. Tucker:                Yeah, in an obscure airport terminal, like the Santa Fe Regional or something like that. Yeah.

Dan Ferris:                 All right man, thanks a lot.

E.B. Tucker:                All right, thanks guys. See you soon.

[Music plays]

Corey McLaughlin:    Gold has been on a tear recently, hitting new all-time highs, and everyone seems to want in. Wholesale store Costco is selling out of its gold bars. Central banks are buying gold in record numbers, stacking it in their vaults on pallets. It’s even hitting overseas as China’s gold trading volume just hit a record 400%. You may be wondering if you’ve missed the window. Is it too late to get in on the gains?

My colleague and friend Dr. David “Doc” Eifrig says no. This gold mania is actually just getting started. But he cautions you don’t want to run out and buy gold coins or mining stocks like everyone else. Instead he’s found a much better way. You can get all the details at goldmaniareport.com. That site will take you to Doc’s new free report that spells it all out for you. Get the facts for yourself. Go to goldmnaniareport.com to read Doc’s free report and find out how to get his four simple steps you can take today for the best way to get in on this gold mania.

[Music plays]

Dan Ferris:                 I love talking with that guy, man. I haven’t seen him in a long time as we said, and he’s always, as he said very vulnerable and open, and the conversation always does that with him. You get into this kind of personal emotional stuff, and then you’re talking about a company that he’s on the board or was on the board. A stock that he owns and why. And it’s just, you know, with him I just let the conversation go. I don’t try to keep him on just talking about finance because I think it’s better if we don’t.

Corey McLaughlin:    You get more finance in his newsletter. I know that. Which he applies that whole conversation that we just had to investing, right? So yeah. It was, I was looking forward to, listening to him too. And mostly you and him talk. Because I know he was at the company before me. But I followed some of his works since I started at Stansberry several years ago. So it was good to hear his backstory.

And just, how he thinks about life really, and it got me thinking about you know, my start, getting involved in investing. You have to figure it out, kind of for yourself first. Even finding it, you know, finding somebody to follow or some sort of introduction to money and finance. I did. And so, and then from there, you kind of keep drilling down and narrowing the focus I think. I’m still in the process of doing that. It’s, maybe that’s the point, you’re always supposed to be doing that.

Dan Ferris:                 As soon as we started the conversation eh said yeah, I talked about his transition from being a kind of a status quo guy to a guy off doing his own thing. Well, it’s still going on, you know? It never ends. You’re never not making a transition. You’re never not, you know, living your authentic way as soon as you commit to doing so. And it’s always a challenge. But apparently a rewarding one for him. He’s been pretty successful. And like I said, just a pleasure to talk with, is all, that’s all I can say. A pleasure to talk with. Oh yeah, the book. I can’t wait for that.

Corey McLaughlin:    Yeah, I’m looking forward to seeing when this book comes out.

Dan Ferris:                 To see all these conversations we’ve had over the years put into book form. 60,000 words, all in one place. Plus all the experiences he’s had that, you know, we haven’t talked about since then. And his description of the early editors who had a deep emotional reaction, like what is he going to tell me in this book, you know? I can’t wait to find out what it was that people reacted to like that. From you know, kind of a finance guy, you know? That’s pretty interesting. So we’ll see.

That of course, ladies and gentlemen, that’s another interview, and that’s another episode of the Stansberry Investor Hour. I hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. We do provide a transcript for every episode. Just go to www.investorhour.com, click on the episode you want, scroll all the way down, click on the word transcript and enjoy.

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